One thing that video I posted in my last post got me thinking about again is praise. I think most people out there don’t even think there is any controversy or differing opinions on the use of praise. Praise is positive, and therefore must be a good thing, right? At the end of the video, he discusses not taking good things for granted and providing feedback when you appreciate something someone is doing.
Which I think is a great point, btw. Too often the good is taken for granted while the bad is nitpicked and nagged about. I called in to a “How’s my driving?” line once because the trucker I was calling about was great. The lady I talked to was pretty rude at first, and seemed annoyed. When she realized I was calling in to praise the driver, not criticize him, her entire demeanor changed. I have to wonder how often she actually got positive calls?
Anyway, the problem with praise, bribes, etc, is that even though they seem like positive things, they can still be conceived as manipulative. Alfie Kohn has a good article which explains some of the reasoning behind it. I recently finished reading his book Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishments to Love and Reason
I’m on the fence about praise. I think genuine, honest praise and feedback is a good thing. While I want Meredith’s motivations to be intrinsic, I do want her to know that I appreciate her help or enjoy her art or whatever it is she’s interested in. Of course, I want her to know I love her and am proud of her no matter what.
But I do find some praise silly, and even degrading. And I notice so many parents saying “good job!” over and over again about every little thing their kids do. I like to try to find other ways of saying it. “Good job” implies that something else was a “bad job”. Like if a baby takes her first steps, and the parents exclaim “good job!”, does that when the child couldn’t walk it was bad? Of course it doesn’t, but how does it come across to the children to be praised like this? My mom said “Good poo!” to my daughter when she was four months old. Someone explain to me, what exactly makes a poo good or bad? I like to thank Meredith for helping or for, say, waiting for me when we’re out on a walk and there’s a busy road nearby, but I try to avoid falling into the trap of constant “good jobs.”
We do celebrate with her, especially when she is excited about something. We will sometimes cheer when she poops in the potty or figures something out she’d been struggling with. We take her cue a lot. If she doesn’t seem to think it’s a big deal, it probably isn’t. But if she seems really proud of herself we want to acknowledge that too.
We also like to talk about things with her. Rather than saying “good job!” if she puts her toys away, we might thank her and say “it’s really helpful to me when you put your toys away” or something along those lines. Along the same lines, if she hits I might tell her that it hurts when she hits and give her an alternative (either stroking me, or hitting the couch). That way we’re not asking her to just take our word for it that that’s the way things are, or that she has to do things because we said so, but actually giving her a reason. I think doing this also has the benefit that if similar situations come up in the future she will be better equipped to process it and decide on a course of action.
On the other side is punishments. I found this great article by Jan Hunt: The Parenting Golden Rule. She brings up some good points about how there seems to be a double standard. What applies to an adult doesn’t necessarily (or even usually) seem to apply to children. The other day my mom told me that it was okay if Meredith cried, and it wouldn’t kill her. Well of course it won’t, and I am not under the impression that I can always prevent her from crying, but if an adult was crying somewhere, he or she would certainly expect anyone coming across them to try and find out what’s wrong and help them out. And yet, it’s okay to ignore a crying child just because he or she is smaller than us or can’t communicate what she needs?
For me, discipline isn’t a punishment and reward type of system. Discipline is such a loaded word in some circles, but really, it’s root comes from the word to teach, or to guide. I don’t think discipline needs to be conditional, coercive, or manipulative, it just normally is.
Posted on October 16th, 2008 by AttachedMama
Filed under: Consensual Living
Just found my way here through a google alert for Unconditional Parenting.
I recently finished Alfie’s book and I am convinced that this is the method for us. His view on praise seems to be the most misunderstood part of his philosophy. I agree with what you’ve posted about praise, and I think it is right in line with what Kohn suggests. My interpretation is that genuine praise that isn’t a value judgment is still desirable. It seems like these days praise as puffery is in vogue and this is what he is against. I’ve been guilty of it with my 5 year old and after reading UP I definitely see how he seeks my approval much too often.
My rule of thumb is, if I wouldn’t say it to my spouse, I try not to say it to my children. Just as we would celebrate our spouse’s accomplishments or thank them for helping us out we should do the same with our children. So if my kids do something helpful I thank them and tell them I appreciate what they did. With my 2 year old I find saying “you did it” instead of good job shows my interest and acknowledges what he has accomplished without the detrimental value judgment.
Hi Dawn, Thanks so much for the comment! I was lucky in that I found Kohn’s book while I was pregnant. I agree that his book is so often misinterpreted as no praise at all. I think his point is that if you’re only praising a child to try and get them to repeat something, you’re being just as manipulative and/or coercive as when you punish a child to get them not to repeat something. Either way, the motivation still isn’t intrinsic and they’re still not necessarily doing something because they really believe it’s the right thing to do, or what they really want to do.
Your rule of thumb is pretty much mine too, and I extend it to all areas of my parenting. Of course there are things that are different between my husband and my daughter, she needs a lot more guidance than he does, but I think she deserves just as much respect in our interactions as he does. We use “you did it!” too, and sometimes just a “yay!”, which she has come to associate with clapping hands and will do herself when she figures something out or does something she is excited about.
It’s great to “meet” people with similar parenting styles and values. Do you have a blog as well?
I’m glad you wrote this post! Unconditional Parenting is absolutely on my top five inspiring books.
I think there is a real difference between the praise that is “Oh good pooping!” and “Oh wow, I love that drawing! Look at all that hair you put on me. That’s so pretty.”. Praise is often manipulative imo and not just to our kids. It’s not a good thing when we say it to stimulate behaviour either to stay the same or change. It’s different if you are saying something praise like because you truly enjoyed something and want to share your joy and appreciation. Sadly, I think it can be a fine line between the two sometimes. Who said life was easy?
Yeah it’s hard to know sometimes. For example, I cheer when Meredith poops on the potty because I’m genuinely thrilled and she usually is too, but I do want her to keep doing it too! But it does seem like a silly reason. I think the type of praise where you point out things you like about something or are more specific than “good job” is far more meaningful anyway and shows that you really are paying attention.
UP was definitely influential to me. I kept comparing it to how I felt growing up (I was always a “good” kid and the “smart” kid), and it really helped explain a lot about myself so it was kind of healing for me as well.
Hey just a quick note to let you know I mentioned you on my blog.
Annie
Being the “bad kid” and the “pretty one” (read: stupid) I always looked to our parents for approval when I was young. When it was my dish week I’d wash the windows or clean the burners on the stove just so they would say “Thanks!” (which as you know rarely happened anyway ;-)) I think if we were receiving genuine praise for accomplishments that would have been a different scenario altogether.
It’s not that I look for praise now as much as I did when I was younger but I do have times when I think “why hasn’t anybody noticed I did _____” and I think getting approval is a bad reason to do ANYTHING.
I know exactly what you mean Alice. I was the “good kid” but even that made me seek approval as I didn’t want to lose that status. I didn’t realize until partway through university that spending my whole life doing things because I wanted others’ approval was not a good way to live. I’m glad I figured it out as early as I did! I definitely still find myself looking for approval.
Thanks Annie!
Awesome post. I read about this also in the Inspired Parenting magazine and I’m a huge fan. I found it interesting how much I had to change about my own automatic reactions so as to not inadvertedly create the desire for approval from Zalen. Good thing I learned of this as early as I did! I found it tricky to find alternatives to saying “good job” without having too long of a sentence to replace it, ha. It seems in part to be the nature of our language also, where everything is good or bad. When I said good job I used to mean that I enjoyed watching him do what he was doing, but there was no excaping the underlying suggestion of approval - so I stopped saying it. Before I even was aware of it, I still told him he was a good boy! Funny how something so relatively innocent can mean so much in the development of a child!
Thanks again for the post. This stuff could be taught in parenting classes. I bet there would be a surprising demand from parents who really want to make some beneficial changes to the way children are raised in these more aware times.
Hey Brigitte! Thanks for commenting. If you haven’t read UP you should check it out. I think a lot of people are really surprised that something so seemingly positive could actually be quite detrimental, but then it makes so much sense when you read about it. It is hard sometimes to stop myself. I’m glad I read UP while I was pregnant, as I never got into the habit of saying it to her and it is much easier to catch myself.
We need to get together again soon!
Hey Linds!
Ok, been wanting to write for a while but, well, we tend to have our hands busy heh? I had a really interesting conversation with Buzz after I replied the last time to this blog post and I wanted to share. At first I was frustrated with his cavalier reaction to my suggestion that we should maybe take this more seriously. I, for one, can feel it in my bones what you speak of.
Again, haven’t read the book yet, but I think I get the jist enough to post this. I agreed avidly with the idea that when a child is told “good girl/boy” or “good job”, that the emotions triggered are those of pleasing, of wanting to be accepted, and ultimately, approval. The opposite, like is being suggested, is that in the absense of this positive reinforcement, the child feels they may then not be good, or be doing well. And this is where Buzz didn’t agree.
His point was interesting. To add my own bit for reference sake - our parents are of a generation that is known to have been raised in an atmosphere of “not good enough”. It simply didn’t matter how hard they tried, there was always room for improvement. Anything that was done should have, or atleast could have, been done better. It has created an entire generation of low self esteem. I open myself up for correction here, but this is what I have read, and what I see. Then these people went on to raise us, and though the status quo for child rearing had shifted slightly toward a more free self expression and less structure/discipline, there was still a handing down of “try harder and we’ll see how you do”. Don’t know about you, actually, I do. An example is your family’s vaccuuming chore. At one point you mentioned that if you didn’t do it according to your parents’ standards, whatever that was, you had to do it again. So, unless you heard them affirm your efforts with “good girl” or “good job”, you could likely assume you didn’t pass the grade. Another example I know well is where I’d somehow be in trouble for something I hadn’t done, or somehow not fullfilled an expectation I didn’t know about. This left me in trouble without understanding, and so swallowed by feelings of abandonment, I’d reach out at any opportunity to hear that I was doing something right, again, affirmed by some positive comment.
This is not normal!! It may be the way we (and I use “we” here carefully) were raised, but our conditioned responses to positive reinforcement by feeling temporarily safe knowing for the moment we’re doing things right, and then getting insecure about ourselves once the reinforcement stops, is not normal.
Again, this is my/Buzz’ take, I’m interested in your response.
My point is this. The WAY we parent can exclude this drama all together. Buzz says that he is not interested in ever giving Zalen a reason to believe he’s not good enough. He is being raised with the assumption that he is perfect in his own expression, whatever form that may take. This leaves Zalen comfortable in his own skin, not searching for approval because he always has it. Period. Unconditional love you might say - and that means, without condition.
To teach him boundaries can be done by helping him understand the principles we encourage, and he will learn to find his balance within these by trying things out and seeing what fits. To tell him he’s doing a good job simply means he’s doing a good job. That doesn’t automatically mean when he doesn’t do it, he’s no good. He should have no reason to consider himself no good, no matter what, if we haven’t ever presented that option. As we learn, we try things. Some work, some not so much. That is the lesson. That is not a judgement on the PERSON trying their options and deciding on their course of action from hereon forward.
I have to say, it’s been a soul search to catch up to Buzz on this one, but I agree with him. I have much to release from my own childhood to remove the insecurities placed in my personality by past experiences. I choose to raise Zalen in an environment where questioning himself as ‘good enough’ for some external opinion is not of importance. I think to concern one’s self with the perspective/judgement of another is a dying belief system, insofar as to change one’s ways for the sole purpose of gaining another person’s acceptance. We both choose to only entertain the given that Zalen is a good person, no matter how he expresses himself on his journey to discover this world he’s a part of, and his place in it.
Does that make sense? This is an expansive topic.. Looking forward to your feedback.
Brigitte.
PS.. THANK YOU for bringing this up. It’s been a very important conversation for Buzz and I to have!
Just read a few posts above and wanted to add this - I think, again, the underlying issue is whether or not the action that led to the “good job” or “good girl” is what makes a child think they are now good. If a child knows that they are loved and accepted no matter what, does it not make it easy to then get excited about them pooing on the potty because you too are thrilled they are learning?
I think it is about maintaining a self supporting atmosphere of acceptance, and catching ourselves if we ever regress in our behaviour to judge another as ‘not good enough’. When this happens, we can choose to shift our perspective toward understanding that a child’s actions are not a reflection of who they are, but rather an unescapable learning process wherein they will find their way, and along that path, make mistakes. I think we would all agree we wouldn’t want to love and accept our kids any less when these attempts swing toward less pleasant behavior.
Brigitte, I can’t actually write as much as I would like right now because Meredith is awake, but thought I would comment quickly and I’ll come back to it later.
A lot of what you said is what he writes about in UP: that it’s very important for children to know that they are loved no matter who they are or what they do. Good job specifically is given as an example because it’s so common and so overused. It also doesn’t give the child any information about why it’s a good job. He gives some good reasons behind it and research on that specifically in the article I linked.
For example, rather than saying good job when Meredith uses the potty, I will say something like, “you peed in the potty!” Or she is learning to throw balls and quite proud of herself, and when she threw one particularly far I said: “Wow, that sure went a long way that time”. It sounds like it might be kind of forced or fake sounding when I write it down, but when I actually say it in the moment it actually comes quite naturally. I like this much better than good job because it’s not a judgment, and it lets her know what I thought or liked about something. It can be used instead of “bad job” too. “Oops, you peed on the floor, let’s clean that up.” Again, no judgment, it’s not bad, and there’s no manipulation or coercion involved (if she doesn’t want to help clean it up I do it myself, but normally she will help).
I also want to avoid comparing her to other people around her. Comparing baby’s milestones seems to be so pervasive in our society, but it’s silly, since all babies will do things at their own rate and it doesn’t make one better than another. When I was younger, I could not bring a good mark home without my mom asking if it was the highest mark in the class, and if it wasn’t she would want to know why I didn’t get the best mark and joke about being ashamed of me. It may have been only a joke, but I don’t think she realized how much it hurt me. Plus, I was a praise junkie and she never gave her approval in these cases, making it even worse for me. (This is also a reason that we won’t be sending Meredith to a school that uses grades. They are not only a judgment, but also set kids up against each other. Luckily there are a lot of options in Victoria if we decide not to home school.)
Hiya! I found you through the Continuum Concept ring. This post has caught my eye, and I want to keep reading your blog. : )